Sevillana from 1973, Victoria Santiago Borja, better known as Tana, has the honor of having been one of the main voices of the album good things of Paco de Lucía, of having accompanied the genius of Algeciras on several world tours and even of having brought him back as a producer, for his album You, come to me. At least 20 years have passed since many of those moments, but for her time does not seem to have passed: not a day goes by that she does not remember the teacher.
–You started singing at a very young age, you were with Joaquín Cortés, with Farruquito, but… When did you feel like an artist for the first time?
–I started in the tablaos of Seville, I was in Los Gallos, and then it was Joaquín who first took me on his tours. I was there for about four years, and during that time I was also able to do things with Farruquito, with Manuela Carrasco, with Canales… I started like that, backwards, singing for dancing.
–What did Paco de Lucía represent for you then?
–It was a myth, just like CamarónThey were our idols. It was unthinkable that I would ever be able to go with him, not even in my dreams.
–What did you hear about them that you liked?
–I couldn't say anything about them: I will live, Colt of Rage and Honey… They are all anthologies. And the same goes for Paco, he listened to all of their albums.
–How was your first meeting with the master?
–I was working with Joaquín Cortés, when Javier Limón told Paco: “There is a girl who sings well, I would like you to listen to her.” And they called me immediately to Good ThingsI already knew Javi, and Pepe de Lucía too…
–How was your contact with Pepe?
–I had an interview with him, because at the beginning he was going to record an album for me, when I was 19 years old. I remember that I went to Madrid with my brother, I met him, and Javi was working with Pepe at the time. That’s where we met and, although in the end my album couldn’t be made, contacts, collaborations, little things that I did with him arose. Pepe is a wise man in this, like all the brothers, who are geniuses…
–Were Pepe and Paco very different?
–Yes, I think Pepe was a little more serious. Paco was more of a joker, he liked to laugh a lot.
–Was the call made by Limón or by Paco?
–Paco called me directly. “I would like you to come and do some choruses, so we can see each other and get to know each other.” That was the idea at first, but when we were already in the studio he told me: “Look, you are going to record this song.” And I recorded it. good things. And he proposed that I go on tour with him. For me it was, you can imagine, a dream come true. I said yes, of course.
«Paco had been with the genius of geniuses, and to overcome that... He said that there were people who sang very well, each one with our own things, he liked Estrella... But after hearing Camarón, I think she didn't like anyone. And it happens to me, I listen to her records and I don't like anyone anymore, not even myself.
–What was your first impression when you saw Paco?
–I was shaking from my nerves, I didn’t even speak. And he told me: “Relax, I am made of flesh and blood like you.” And I said, “But you are the teacher…”
–How was the recording of the album?
–I was there for the whole recording, with Diego, when Morao played, with everyone… I was in Madrid for two months or so. He was extraordinary for everything, for recording as well. He gave me a lot of encouragement, “go in there calmly, don’t worry, we’ll repeat whatever you have to do. But you’re going to do it well, if you’re a tuner!”
–He was very fond of cante, did they talk about it?
–A lot, I asked him for advice. “Teacher, who do I study, who do I listen to?” And he told me: “To study, you have to listen to the old ones, you have to go back. Camarón You have to listen to him to enjoy it, but to study… Listen to Tomás, to Niña de los Peines, to Manuel Torre…».
–And advice?
–Especially when we had to enter, where to finish… But it gave you a lot of freedom.
–Montse Cortés told me that he gave her very precise instructions, but not so much to you, because you didn't listen to him. Were you that rebellious?
–Yes, he gave me instructions, but he also liked my improvisation, he left me more to my own devices, that's true.
–Which guitarists did you like?
–He liked Diego. He was convinced that he would create a school, and it is true, because now many children follow him. He also spoke of Vicente, who was a beast… He really liked the gypsy guitar. He spoke less about singers, it seemed to him that it was very difficult. He had been with the genius of geniuses, and to overcome that… He said that there were people who sang very well, each one with our own things, he liked Estrella, who does everything very well… But after hearing CamarónI think she didn't like anyone. And it happens to me, I listen to her records and I don't like anyone anymore, not even myself.
–What was your relationship with the gypsies?
–He loved gypsies, he felt like one of them. He used to say it, you know? “I’m a gypsy, but I feel like a gypsy.” He carried it with him in his daily life, in his experiences. He couldn’t deny what he was, his father or his mother, but he was convinced that in another life he had been a gypsy [laughs]. He didn’t think we sang better or worse, it was just another way, and he liked it.
"I asked him for advice. Master, who do I study, who do I listen to? And he told me: To study, you have to listen to the old ones, you have to go back. Camarón You have to listen to him to enjoy it, but to study… Listen to Tomás, to Niña de los Peines, to Manuel Torre…»
–The first tour was a time of change for Paco, after many years with the same line-up. How do you remember that aspect?
–He seemed quite excited, he wanted to make changes and he really enjoyed the new team, to be honest.
–You had already travelled around the world with great artists, what was different about going with Paco?
–Of course, there was more interest there. We learned with Joaquín and the others, but with Paco it was much more, because he was a musician. And his audience, imagine, was people who liked the music. flamenco, were given over.
–Paco's companions always say that they barely had time to rehearse with him. Did you manage to do so?
–I rehearsed for the first tour, and we went to Madrid for about fifteen days, because of course, we were all new and we had to put together the whole new repertoire, so we went there, to Javi's studio. In the end, everything was put together sooner than expected, we got everything done quickly and we were able to shorten the rehearsals.
–Did you already know Negri before?
–Yes, man, it was something different from what he had played before, and Paco wanted to try it. And since he also played some instrument, the mandolin or something like that, he tried it with that one too.
–What memories do you have of the tour?
–We did a few, all over the world. America, North and South, Japan, Germany, Russia… I don’t know, a lot of countries. We spent two months away from home. I remember one thing that we laughed a lot about, although it made him angry at first. When we got to New York, we went through security and he was carrying his ProTools and his stuff, and some guy who was there took it from him. We laughed, trying to make light of it, and he looked at us and said: “This guy doesn’t know what I have there.” “What’s so important?” they asked him, and he said, “Well, my music.” Then they gave it back to him, of course, but we laughed the hardest, because I’d never seen him like that. We told him it was strange that they didn’t know him, and he replied: “I got the village idiot.”
–More memories?
–He was a joker, he was always joking. He would always tease us for a while before we went out, “Montse is going to kill you later…” He would tease everyone, then he would go to Montse and tell her the same thing. At first, when we were getting to know each other, although all of us have always gotten along very well… The truth is that we would go out and everyone would put everything on the line. Then we would say to him “leave me alone!” “Well, keep calm, but get your act together, because the other girl will give you a hard time later…” He would tease Piranha with the other girl, the other girl with the other girl…
–Did you have a good relationship with the group?
–Yes, I still talk to Duquende, Alain, Antonio Serrano… And Bobby, who was our interpreter because we didn’t know how to say anything in English. We had a great time with him.
«He loved gypsies, he felt like one of them. He said it, you know? I'm a gypsy, but I feel like a gypsy. He carried it with him in his daily life, in his experiences. He couldn't deny what he was, his father or his mother, but he was convinced that in another life he had been a gypsy [laughs]. He didn't think we sang better or worse, it's just another way, and he liked it»
–Japan, was that another story?
–The truth is that I had a bad experience, because I got sick there, I caught something like a bug and Paco sent me home. “If you don’t get worse here, you’ll go to Spain.” We went back several times later, but I always remembered that. He was very attentive to us, he looked after us.
–How did you get along with your mother, Herminia?
–Great, they were always joking with each other. My mother would say to him, “Paco, marry me,” and he would laugh his head off, “you’re nobody…” They were the best of each other.
–Did you see him have any bad nights?
– Playing? Well, we have experienced some, but he didn’t notice it, neither us nor the audience. He would tell us, “My God, I haven’t hit a single one.” “But maestro, you don’t fail even if you wanted to.” “Yes I do, yes I do…”
–And the glances he gave from the stage?
–He wanted us to always be attentive, in harmony… And at the same time he always smiled at you. He looked at you so you wouldn't get distracted, but I don't remember him telling us that we had been wrong.
–Paco had not produced a record since Pony of rage and honey, and the next one was the one he made for you. How did that project come about?
–It was with Javi too. He suggested recording it, “let’s record a little album for La Tana”. I was always telling him “Paco, please, let’s do something, let’s record something”, until one day he told me that we were going to do it. They looked for the record company, they spoke to a woman from Virgin, I don’t remember her name, and imagine…
–How was the work?
– He was calling people to give him songs, he was passing them on to me so I could see if I liked them, how I felt singing them… When we had them, we organized to go to Madrid, for about fifteen days. First making references, calling people, and the album was made quite quickly. Alejandro Sanz was also there, who had put the Cuban tres in good things… In the end, we chose three songs by Boris Carmona, others by my father, another by Juan José Amador, some lyrics by Farruquito, del Capullo… It turned out really well, you can still hear it.
–In fact, a version by Omar Montes has recently been released. Do you think Paco would like it?
–I don’t think so [laughs].
«Teacher, tell us this, that… There he told us that he was in love with Camarón, who was just another musician. He also suffered a lot, he was very nervous before going out, he got sick. You see, then he would go out and my goodness, what a mess he would make. And when he came to Andalusia, I can't even tell you. Maestro, what do you feel up there? What am I going to feel? So much fatigue!
–You are close to young people, you have also collaborated with C Tangana…
–Yes, he is a great guy, I think he is an incredible person, super intelligent. Another genius, in his own field, but a genius. He loves flamenco, and he likes good things, he's not stupid.
–How was your farewell to Paco?
–Well, sad, I'm not going to lie to you, because we were very happy, delighted with life. It's also true that I started working on my solo album, Montse too... Each of us had our own careers, we weren't alone, and he obviously wanted people who were doing their thing. He told us that he loved us very much, but he wanted to make a change.
–Did you continue to have contact with him?
–Yes, of course, by phone. He was on tour and I was working, but we spoke to him, to his daughter, to his wife. We never lost contact.
–How did you receive the news of his death?
–It just so happened that I was in Madrid, working. A friend called me, I had worked the night before and I was sleeping. “Have you seen the news?” “No, has something happened?” “The teacher!” I got up, immediately called Gabriela, she told me that they were already in Madrid, that they would take him to Algeciras later… I went, I gave him his bouquet of flowers, I was with the family. I couldn’t go to Algeciras, for the funeral. We couldn’t believe it, we were scared, because he was a strong guy, who played sports, he surprised us a lot.
–How many times do you think about him during the day?
–Lots of them. Every time I work, because he always said: “Don’t change your way of singing, you have your personality, and that’s what matters. Don’t worry, if they don’t understand you now, they will understand you later.” Things like that come to me. And many people ask me to tell them things about that time, how it was with Paco… He’s always there.
–And of your conversations, which one would you choose?
–He rarely spoke seriously, so I remember one in which he repeated, “the flamenco“They are all lazy, they just want to sleep and eat.” I argued with him, “We are also workers.” And he said, “Come on, we are freeloaders…” “Come on, teacher, seriously.”
–You never got him to talk seriously to you?
–Yes, once, like a trip we took on one of those buses with beds, around New York… At that time, when we were spending more hours with him, we all asked him things, teacher, tell us this, that… There he told us that he was in love with Camarón, who was just another musician. He also suffered a lot, he was very nervous before going out, he got sick. You see, then he would go out and my goodness, what a mess he would make. And when he came to Andalusia, I can't even tell you. "Maestro, what do you feel up there?" "What am I going to feel? So much fatigue!" ♦
→ See here the installments of the series THE CHOSEN ONES, by Alejandro Luque, about Paco de Lucía's collaborators:
# THE CHOSEN ONES (XXII) Pepe Pereira: «Paco had a lack of musical self-esteem»
# THE CHOSEN ONES (XXI) Juan Ramírez: «When Paco died, the oil ran out, now there are only puddles»
# THE CHOSEN ONES (XX) Antonio Sánchez: «Paco was not the only creator, but being anti-Pakistan is being an idiot»
# THE CHOSEN ONES (XIX) Bobby Martínez: «When Paco told me that in flamenco "You can't read music..."
# THE CHOSEN ONES (XVIII) Joaquín Grilo: «I am hurt by the way Paco is being honored»
# THE CHOSEN ONES (XVII) Domingo Patricio: «The level of Paco's tours was not there before and is not there now»
# THE CHOSEN ONES (XVI) Enrique Heredia 'Negri': «A conversation with Paco was equivalent to ten years of career»
# THE CHOSEN ONES (XV) Toni Aguilar: «I left Paco de Lucía's group because I didn't want to cheat on him»
# THE CHOSEN ONES (XIV) Jesús Pardo: «For Paco it was inconceivable to release an album and for people not to be amazed»
# THE CHOSEN ONES (XIII) Juan Manuel Cañizares: «Every time we pick up the guitar, Paco is there»
# THE CHOSEN ONES (XII) Álvaro Yébenes: «Paco de Lucía was never able to get out of the flamenco»
# THE CHOSEN ONES (XI) Rubio de Pruna: «Paco de Lucía spoke wonders of his companions, he never boasted about himself»
# THE CHOSEN ONES (X) Chonchi Heredia: «Paco de Lucía has left all guitarists frustrated»
# THE CHOSEN ONES (IX) / Rubem Dantas: «In Russia, Germany or Japan everyone became flamenco"listening to Paco de Lucía"
# THE CHOSEN ONES (VIII) / Rafael de Utrera: “Thanks to Paco I ended up singing ten times louder than I could before”
# THE CHOSEN ONES (VII) / David de Jacoba: «The first time I saw Paco write a story next to me, I wanted to cry»
# THE CHOSEN ONES (VI) / Niño Josele: «Paco de Lucía's music was like my natural language»
# THE CHOSEN ONES (V) / Antonio Serrano: «Paco got nervous before concerts, because he didn't study anything»
# THE CHOSEN ONES (IV) / Duquende: «Paco de Lucía's group was like a spaceship»
# THE CHOSEN ONES (III) / El Viejín: «Each falseta by Paco de Lucía can take you in a different direction»
# THE CHOSEN ONES (II) / Dani de Morón: «There are still those who believe that not studying Paco is the same as having personality»
# THE CHOSEN ONES (I) / With Alain Pérez in Havana (and II): «Paco de Lucía had everyone waiting for him to fail»
# THE CHOSEN ONES (I) / With Alain Pérez in Havana (I): «Enrique Morente was a true visionary»
