{"id":6045,"date":"2017-11-13T17:36:23","date_gmt":"2017-11-13T17:36:23","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.expoflamenco.com\/archivo\/uncategorized\/una-reunion-de-entendidos\/"},"modified":"2019-04-14T14:24:09","modified_gmt":"2019-04-14T12:24:09","slug":"a-meeting-of-experts","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/expoflamenco.com\/archivo\/en\/blog-archivo\/a-meeting-of-experts\/","title":{"rendered":"Among experts"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>I\u2019ve always been interested in cantaores and cantaoras who know a lot about cante, something which I consider to be essential in order to be a good performer. One thing is to have a good, beautiful voice, with <em>duende<\/em>, and another is to be a good singer. One evening I had the great privilege of socializing with Antonio el Chocolate, Naranjito de Triana, Eduardo el de la Malena and Pies de Plomo (the father of Jos\u00e9 el de la Tomasa) and this topic came up. Checking some notes I took that day, I discovered many interesting details about how the artists talk about things we critics are unaware of, particularly those of us who aren\u2019t musicians.<\/p>\n<p>We were in the house of a good friend in Coria del R\u00edo, overlooking the Guadalquivir river, and El Chocolate got started talking about all what his good friend Pepe Marchena knew about cante, although at one point he mentioned that the master \u201cknew cante in his own way\u201d. Naranjito asked Chocolate what he meant by \u201cin his own way\u201d, and Antonio, always lively, explained: \u201cLook, Naranjo, Pepe was unique, but sometimes he didn\u2019t know how to explain things and he would make stuff up on the fly. For example, he would be talking about the cante of Ram\u00f3n de Triana, <em>El Ollero<\/em>, and since he had never listened to him, and Ram\u00f3n had never made any recording, he would say things like Pareja or Chac\u00f3n had told him that Ram\u00f3n\u2019s cante was this or that way. You know what? Pepe could sing soleares with fifteen or twenty different lyrics, because he had a prodigious memory. Yet, he made stuff up, he was very given to it\u201d.<\/p>\n<p>Naranjito de Triana knew more about cante than all that has ever been written about it, and, unlike Marchena or Chocolate, he knew how to explain things, sometimes with a guitar in his hands, because he was a very good tocaor, besides being a luthier. He asked to borrow Eduardo el de la Malena\u2019s guitar and explained, in minute detail, how were Ram\u00f3n\u2019s cantes, from a musical\u2019s perspective. \u201cEmilio Abad\u00eda told me that El Ollero would setup cantes for Chac\u00f3n, telling him stuff like \u2018La G\u00f3mez would start in the second comp\u00e1s, when singing por sole\u00e1\u2019. In those years there were cantaores who, before they started singing, would take the guitar and tell the guitarist how they should play, in which fret they should put the bridge and even how they should start and end the comp\u00e1s\u201d.<\/p>\n<p>Pies de Plomo wasn\u2019t very talkative and, since the conversation had become quite technical, he didn\u2019t say anything. Until Antonio el Chocolate started talking about Manuel Torres and his brother Pepe, about Mojama and Tom\u00e1s, then Manuel Giorgio (Pies de Plomo\u2019s actual name) finally joined the conversation. \u201cMy father-in-law, Pepe Torres, told me that Frijones also played the guitar and sometimes he would explain things to the professional guitarists. He said that Frijones once told Antonio P\u00e9rez, the eldest son of Maestro P\u00e9rez: \u2018Those tunes are for Gayarre, give me just what I need\u201d. Interesting expressions, some technical and others not so much, that should be analyzed.<\/p>\n<p>It was in that evening when I first heard about El Planeta\u2019s seguiriya, which, according to Pies de Plomo, became known thanks to Pepe Torres, who recorded it. Pies de Plomo explained: \u201cThat cante was rescued from oblivion by the father of Manuel and Pepe Torres, Juan Soto Montero, from Algeciras, a butcher by trade. He was also a great cantaor, but not professional. One evening, Pepe Torres, who was living at La Alameda, sang it for Antonio Mairena, who encouraged him to record it\u201d.<\/p>\n<p>A while ago, a great aficionado from Alcal\u00e1 de Guada\u00edra sent me a recording where Antonio Mairena explained how he discovered that cante, El Planeta\u2019s <em>A la luna le p\u00edo<\/em>, which matched Pies de Plomo\u2019s version. Yet, just three days ago, an aficionado in his 90s, Rufino P\u00e9rez, who grew up in La Alameda, told me that this cante was performed by Caracol\u2019s maternal grandfather, Gregorio Ju\u00e1rez Monge, from M\u00e1laga, who was a grandson of El Planeta who, indeed, lived many years at La Alameda and whom I located in Seville\u2019s census records from the early 20<sup>th<\/sup>century. Rufino also confirmed something I published many years ago: <em>A la luna le p\u00edo <\/em>was in fact an old funeral ton\u00e1 (<em>Ton\u00e1 del Entierro<\/em>) from M\u00e1laga, sung among the mourners during a burial.<\/p>\n<p><em>A la luna le p\u00edo,<\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>La del alto cielo,<\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>que me saque a mi pare<\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>de donde est\u00e1 met\u00edo,<\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>que verlo camelo.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>(To the Moon <\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>In the high heaven I ask<\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>To take my father out<\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>From where he\u2019s in<\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>\u2018Cause I want to see him)<\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n<p class=\"font_8\">Take him out, not from prison, but from the coffin. There are so many things we can learn from artists and great aficionados that we cannot learn anywhere else. What I wonder is who, among today\u2019s artists, is able to talk about cante just like Mairena, Valderrama or Naranjito could.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>There are so many things we can learn from artists and great aficionados that we cannot learn anywhere else. What I wonder is who, among today\u2019s artists, is able to talk about cante just like Mairena, Valderrama or Naranjito could.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":6,"featured_media":11693,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"ngg_post_thumbnail":0,"footnotes":""},"categories":[66],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-6045","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-blog-archivo"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.4 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Among experts - Archivo Expoflamenco<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/expoflamenco.com\/archivo\/en\/blog-archivo\/a-meeting-of-experts\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Among experts - Archivo Expoflamenco\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"There are so many things we can learn from artists and great aficionados that we cannot learn anywhere else. What I wonder is who, among today\u2019s artists, is able to talk about cante just like Mairena, Valderrama or Naranjito could.\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/expoflamenco.com\/archivo\/en\/blog-archivo\/a-meeting-of-experts\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Archivo Expoflamenco\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:publisher\" content=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/ExpoFlamenco\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2017-11-13T17:36:23+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2019-04-14T12:24:09+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/expoflamenco.com\/archivo\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/11\/expoflamenco-reunion-entendidos.jpg\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"1300\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"801\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Manuel Boh\u00f3rquez\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:creator\" content=\"@expoflamenco1\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:site\" content=\"@expoflamenco1\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Manuel Boh\u00f3rquez\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"4 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\\\/\\\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"Article\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/expoflamenco.com\\\/archivo\\\/en\\\/blog-archivo\\\/a-meeting-of-experts\\\/#article\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/expoflamenco.com\\\/archivo\\\/en\\\/blog-archivo\\\/a-meeting-of-experts\\\/\"},\"author\":{\"name\":\"Manuel Boh\u00f3rquez\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/expoflamenco.com\\\/archivo\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/608d65b2c159f7b5b632f1365c15030f\"},\"headline\":\"Among experts\",\"datePublished\":\"2017-11-13T17:36:23+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2019-04-14T12:24:09+00:00\",\"mainEntityOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/expoflamenco.com\\\/archivo\\\/en\\\/blog-archivo\\\/a-meeting-of-experts\\\/\"},\"wordCount\":881,\"commentCount\":0,\"publisher\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/expoflamenco.com\\\/archivo\\\/#organization\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/expoflamenco.com\\\/archivo\\\/en\\\/blog-archivo\\\/a-meeting-of-experts\\\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"https:\\\/\\\/expoflamenco.com\\\/archivo\\\/wp-content\\\/uploads\\\/2017\\\/11\\\/expoflamenco-reunion-entendidos.jpg\",\"articleSection\":[\"Blog El Bordonazo\"],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"CommentAction\",\"name\":\"Comment\",\"target\":[\"https:\\\/\\\/expoflamenco.com\\\/archivo\\\/en\\\/blog-archivo\\\/a-meeting-of-experts\\\/#respond\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/expoflamenco.com\\\/archivo\\\/en\\\/blog-archivo\\\/a-meeting-of-experts\\\/\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/expoflamenco.com\\\/archivo\\\/en\\\/blog-archivo\\\/a-meeting-of-experts\\\/\",\"name\":\"Among experts - 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