{"id":36568,"date":"2022-09-08T22:41:31","date_gmt":"2022-09-08T20:41:31","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.expoflamenco.com\/archivo\/?p=36568"},"modified":"2022-09-08T22:41:31","modified_gmt":"2022-09-08T20:41:31","slug":"historic-interview-with-encarnacion-marin-la-sallago","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/expoflamenco.com\/archivo\/en\/estela-flamenca\/historic-interview-with-encarnacion-marin-la-sallago\/","title":{"rendered":"Historic interview with Encarnaci\u00f3n Mar\u00edn, La Sallago"},"content":{"rendered":"

Many were unaware La Sallago<\/strong> born in 1919 was still active, and it was an authentic luxury to meet this artist with a voice that brings back the simplicity of past times and the knowledge of an entire life in flamenco.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

The encounter with Encarnaci\u00f3n Mar\u00edn wasn\u2019t your typical interview with concise questions and answers. La Sallago wove in and out of anecdotes, songs, recipes, memories\u2026 At times, she appeared to be speaking in verse, with that rhythm and grace Andalusian people possess in such generous quantities. In the C\u00e1diz tradition of Espeleta and Peric\u00f3n, she related zany stories with enthusiasm, eyes atwinkling and hands gesticulating. Fernando Moreno, the guitarist who drove her from Sanl\u00facar to Almer\u00eda, and who accompanied her recital, assured us with a big grin \u201cshe didn\u2019t stop the whole time, we had a grand time with her!\u201d She\u2019s famous for her saetas, but in actual fact is a very complete singer with an unmistakable personal sound. She was quite a rebel in her youth at a time when young people didn\u2019t rebel. In earlier interviews, she spoke of her difficult marriage, but seems now to have forgiven everything, wanting only to laugh and \u201csing a lot so people can hear how the Sallagos and people of Sanl\u00facar sing\u201d. Two topics dominate this lady\u2019s conversation, two faces of the same coin: childhood and old age. The childhood of the children she never had\u2026and her own old age.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

We\u2019re in the home of Norberto Torres, writer, guitarist, founder and member number one of the flamenco pe\u00f1a El Ciego de la Playa in Hu\u00e9rcal, Almer\u00eda. The lady asks for a cup of coffee \u201cburning hot, burning!\u201d, and the first words she utters reveal what a sassy character is sitting in front of me: \u201cMy name is Encarnaci\u00f3n Mar\u00edn \u2018Sallago\u2019, and I\u2019m 83 years and 50 days old\u201d. She then leans over to me and whispers: \u201cI\u2019ve got this terrible cold, know what I mean?…ask for a bit of whiskey for me so I can get through this\u201d.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Encarna, you were widowed in 1969, right?<\/strong><\/p>\n

And how\u2019d you know that? <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Because I\u2019ve been studying up on internet.<\/strong><\/p>\n

And how does that go? I was singing in Puerto de Santa Mar\u00eda when I lost my husband.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

The reason I ask is because you made your first solo recording in 1972 at the age of 53. Did marriage limit you professionally?<\/strong><\/p>\n

It was extremely difficult to go out on your own. In Sanl\u00facar there\u2019d always been women who sang, both young and old. You\u2019d go out for a coffee and already you were being invited. And the paid fiestas of course, but my beginning was always amid friends. My husband never minded that, he knew my mother sang, my two elder brothers sang very well, both gone now, and the one who\u2019s still alive also sings, but none of them became professional. I\u2019m the only professional singer in the family. Why? Because I loved it, and I love Holy Week and the saetas <\/em>(traditional Easter songs), <\/em>which is how it all started.<\/p>\n

I was always working, I was the eldest, and endured some really hard times. My brothers took to fishing, and I sold fish from a plate, I was just a little girl. It was Easter week when people came to know me singing saetas. There was the Virgin on Barrameda street. I was in the Bar del Roc\u00edo and when I saw the Esperanza, a cousin of mine pushed me up to the front: \u201cNow is when you have to sing, not when you\u2019re at home!\u201d And I sang, and that\u2019s how it all began. By the age of 14 I was supporting myself singing in Sanl\u00facar, but not because I was looking for that, but because people knew we were bad off, and the cupboard was bare. My mother didn\u2019t know I was singing: \u201cMatilde, your daughter\u2019s singing in all the neighborhoods, what a scene!\u201d And my mother said \u201cthat can\u2019t be my daughter, she has no time for singing\u201d. But everyone in the neighborhood would give me a coin or so, whether they could afford it or not.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>

La Sallago, con Fernando Moreno. Foto: Estela Zatania<\/p><\/div>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Your grandmother was from Lebrija, wasn\u2019t she?<\/strong><\/p>\n

I don\u2019t understand how you know all these things, what\u2019s that about \u201cinternet\u201d?<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Well, there\u2019s a lot of information and it comes right through the telephone line.<\/strong><\/p>\n

Wow, that\u2019s amazing! Yes, my grandmother was from Lebrija. She went to Sanl\u00facar de Barrameda to find work, and went to the port where she met and fell in love with my grandfather Sallago who came and went in the ships to the Americas. My other grandfather was from Galicia and everyone wants me to be gypsy, people say I must be from Lebrija or Utrera or Jerez. In Jerez is where I met the Domecq family. We used to go every day to sell whatever we could. We\u2019d buy grain to grind in the mill, and when the Domecq people heard me sing, they took my baskets, and all the things I had to sell, and they said: \u201cYou\u2019re not going to sell any more, you\u2019re coming with us to Jerez\u201d. From that point on, it was a steady stream of flamenco and fiestas, Jerez gave me everything, I swear to God. When I was still a child an image of me and my sister with long curls was painted on plates, like two sardines. So what else do you know about me girl? [laughter]<\/em><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Did you know Manuel Torre?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Manuel Torre wasn\u2019t Manuel Torre, he was \u201cNi\u00f1o de Jerez\u201d. And my mother would always say \u201cEncarna, if you could only hear how Ni\u00f1o de Jerez sings\u2026\u201d That Manuel Torre thing came later on, because he didn\u2019t like being called Ni\u00f1o de Jerez, and because he was very very tall.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Did you have access to recordings to listen to flamenco singing?<\/strong><\/p>\n

There were recordings, but in my house we never had one of those record players. And now there are many recorded singers I don\u2019t like. Anything in the world can be learned, but what comes out is all that counts. Look, I can\u2019t read and write. What would be the purpose? God gave me this ability, I know the art and I know the interpreters, the gatherings\u2026<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Pepe Marchena was very important in your youth, what would you say about him?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Marchena was a singer with a lot of music that was different, and really beautiful\u2026his singing was endless, and he was admired the world over. When he died, I dedicated a song to him, Se Muri\u00f3 Pepe Marchena.<\/em><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

What are your favorite song-forms? <\/strong><\/p>\n

I sing everything, I love all the forms. My mother sang a lot of the old cantinas, <\/em>that was always in my family. I like sole\u00e1, tientos, fandangos, malague\u00f1a, taranto\u2026<\/em><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

In your youth, did they sing much sole\u00e1<\/em> and siguiriya<\/em>?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Mostly flamenco versions of lyrical songs, a lot of things of Imperio Argentina. She was pure gold, and I\u2019m clay because I\u2019m flamenco. Serious cante was less common. My grandfather Sallago sang the old-style siguiriya, as did my mother. My father also sang very well, but I never met him. And they used to sing great buler\u00edas in my town, very laid-back [she marks rhythm on the table and sings]: <\/em>\u201cYo tend\u00ed mi camis\u00f3n, ay con lunares coloraos…\u201d<\/em> [\u201c<\/em>My dress with red polkadots, I hung it out\u2026<\/em>\u201d], when I was a young girl I loved polkadot dresses with ruffles, and I was very mischievous\u2026\u201d…lunares, lunares, lunares, mi batita de lunares, el domingo me la puse y salieron los novios a pares\u201d [\u201cmy polkadot dress, I wore it on Sunday and had the boys flocking to me\u201d]. Lots of people came from Lebrija to hear the Sallagos, but not in a theater, to my house. Because my brothers loved a little drink and their work, that\u2019s all they needed to be happy, they sang very well but didn\u2019t want to sing outside home. And we were always worried we couldn\u2019t spruce up the house, because we received a lot of visitors. And when my widowed mother sold shrimp she used to sing: ‘Sacando yo el copo llor\u00e9, porque quer\u00eda un camaroncito y el viento rompi\u00f3 la red’ [\u201cI cried pulling in the catch, because I wanted a shrimp, but the wind tore the net\u201d]. <\/em>These are old verses of Sanl\u00facar.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Did you know La Peri\u00f1aca?<\/strong><\/p>\n

What a great singer Peri\u00f1aca! She would say she was four times twenty, and now I have to say \u201cfour times twenty plus three euros\u201d [laughter]<\/em>. And neither one of us gypsy. Lots of people think otherwise, but no. There was one guy who said he\u2019d found gypsies in my background, imagine! But it was all fake. One day when I sang at the Circo Price, and you can check out that it\u2019s true, there was an award like a sports trophy, and all the singers wanted to give it to Antonio Molina, know what I mean? But that night I\u2019d made such a splash the audience shouted \u201cno no, for the gypsy girl!\u201d they thought I was gypsy! Antonio Molina was furious, he said the trophy was to be for him. So they had to give another one to him separately.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

You toured with Pastora Pav\u00f3n, La Ni\u00f1a de los Peines, didn\u2019t you?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Yes indeed, with Pastora and her husband el Pinto. In addition to Pastora Imperio, Peric\u00f3n de C\u00e1diz, Manolo Vargas\u2026 When my husband was very ill, I was singing with all those great stars. And I used to dance a lot in those days, I was also a dancer, you know? The thing is, now with this face and this body\u2026because I don\u2019t have wrinkles, I have crevices! If I came out dancing, people would kill me. But there are people who love me, that one from Rota with all the gold teeth, what\u2019s his name? Agujetas! He\u2019s crazy about me, takes me to his house in Rota, and he says \u201cyou stay here with me\u201d. Just like Terremoto, he was also crazy about me, and Porrinas who loved me to bits and pieces. And La Ni\u00f1a de los Peines\u2026one day we were at her bar in la Campana, Seville, and I asked her, \u201cPastora, how can I get rid of these bags under my eyes?\u201d And she says \u201cGet a steam roller!\u201d My God she was so sharp!<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>

Encarnaci\u00f3n Mar\u00edn La Sallago. Foto: archivo de la artista<\/p><\/div>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

You also knew Caracol, didn\u2019t you?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Absolutely! I was always with Caracol. In my opinion, he was the greatest of them all. Also Perrate, what a great singer. Mairena knew a lot about cante, Paquera drives me crazy, and that Perla! Each one in their own way, it\u2019s so beautiful, don\u2019t you think? Gypsy cante, Andalusian cante and those songs from Arag\u00f3n, and the ones from Jalisco\u2026 But what I like most is gypsy-style, because it comes from the heart.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

In an interview with Manuel Herrera in 1989 you said \u201cflamenco singing is being lost and needs to go back to where it was\u201d. Has it gone back?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Who said that, me? Good heavens, how sassy! Singing continues and some of it is really good, like that Jos\u00e9 Merc\u00e9 and Camar\u00f3n, that\u2019s real honest-to-God flamenco singing. I\u2019m not that good, but it\u2019s real flamenco all the same. Now there are a lot of people who are pretty good, but flamenco flamenco it\u2019s not. They sing these little songs, you know, with a flamenco kind of voice. Let me tell you girl, these young people don\u2019t fill the fridge with siguiriya and sole\u00e1, nor could I in my day. I also did my share of popular music, like the groups of young people now. I sing sevillanas short and sweet, different from everyone else. And no one gives me the verses, I make them myself. Some of the young people are extremely good\u2026and this guy who dances, what\u2019s his name? Canales!…what an artist, I really like him a lot.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

So is traditional singing being lost?<\/strong><\/p>\n

[There\u2019s a long pause] <\/em>I don\u2019t think it gets lost, because there\u2019s always a select audience, worthwhile things are never lost. Audiences can be more or less knowledgeable. Young people go for the fun, and these pretty young women, and the cute guys. If someone like me comes on singing, since they don\u2019t understand it\u2026 A couple of years ago I sang in Rota, and it\u2019s painful to remember but, well, when I came on-stage everyone gasped \u201coooh\u201d, like they felt sorry for me, know what I mean? I\u2019ve come to terms with reality in that sense. Girl, I\u2019m not pretty to look at\u2026 [she knocks out rhythm on the table and sings]<\/em>: “Qu\u00e9 fe\u00edta es la vejez, desaparece la ilusi\u00f3n, y ya no hay na\u00edta que hacer”, [\u201chow ugly is old-age, all your dreams dry up, and nothing you can do about it\u201d].<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

That night at the flamenco club no one seemed to care about the singer\u2019s lack of physical beauty. There were many young people in the audience, as well as older ones, gypsies and non-gypsies. And la Sallago easily won them all over with her richly worn voice, her still admirable faculties and her delightful personality. They all loved her and cheered her on at every moment. Encarna wove a tapestry of little songs and dances, and observations about the realities of life, and her words become music again. She\u2019s clearly comfortable with Fernando Moreno who accompanies her lovingly\u2026malague\u00f1a, tientos, sole\u00e1, tangos, buler\u00edas siguiriyas, fandangos\u2026 She returns the admiration singing again and again, \u201c\u00a1Qu\u00e9 bien toca mi Fernando, con ese ritmo y ese comp\u00e1s!\u201d [\u201cHow well my Fernando plays, with all that rhythm!\u201d] When a small child runs across the stage, he\u2019s scolded by the grown-ups, but the singer hushes the adults with a verse she makes up on the spot about the beautiful innocence of childhood, and the children \u201cI never bore\u201d.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Estela Zatania. Almer\u00eda, February, 2002<\/em><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Encarnaci\u00f3n Mar\u00edn \u201cSallago\u201d passed away in 2015 at the age of 96.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>

La Sallago, con Estela Zatania, autora de la entrevista. Foto: Estela Zatania<\/p><\/div>\n

 <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

A woman born more than eight decades ago made the long trip from her hometown of Sanl\u00facar de Barrameda (C\u00e1diz) to Almer\u00eda to offer her timeless singing to a small group of flamenco followers. <\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":9,"featured_media":36563,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"ngg_post_thumbnail":0,"footnotes":""},"categories":[69,68],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-36568","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-en-portada","category-estela-flamenca"],"yoast_head":"\nHistoric interview with Encarnaci\u00f3n Mar\u00edn, La Sallago - Archivo Expoflamenco<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/expoflamenco.com\/archivo\/en\/estela-flamenca\/historic-interview-with-encarnacion-marin-la-sallago\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Historic interview with Encarnaci\u00f3n Mar\u00edn, La Sallago - 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